Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

The Matchday threads have become somewhat of a legend on Planet Swans. Here, we keep them all for posterity, watch how forum posters react as our games materialise.

Moderator: jackharris

What will the result be against Birmingham?

Poll ended at 19 Mar 2022 07:42

Swans win
57
61%
Draw
12
13%
Birmingham win
25
27%
 
Total votes: 94

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Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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RodgerTheDodger
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

Unread post by RodgerTheDodger »

Speaking as an ex-CB/CM (not very good) whenever I watch the Swans now there is one thing that is glaringly obvious - the defence are over-coached. A good example of this was Naughton's 'scoring pass' against Peterborough. OK he slid, but you don't do what he was trying to do, because it's risky. No one will ever convince me that Naughton was doing the natural thing, he's very good defender who would never make that mistake left to his own devices, he was doing what has been drummed-in in training. The defence are being schooled into chess pieces that can only move in certain ways, do certain things, and it's painful to watch. The problem is not a lack of quality in the players, anyone coming in would do little better, it is the whole defensive approach.

There is a lot of 'paper, scissors, stone' about football. If a team often moves the ball slowly out of defence with short passes, the opposition can and from time to time will, form an approximate line of 4 10 metres inside the defensive half, block the channels so the back line have to move it around between themselves, and then when a player gets isolated as they always will eventually, they get a rush press and either robbed or a hurried pass goes astray. Not the defender's fault. There is a counter to that, fast one touch through the mid-field or chip into the big spaces left by the opposition players up ready for the rush press, move the ball fast towards the goal with half their team marooned up field. But the Swans don't do that, the opposition tactic is safe, the defence knows that they are always likely to lose the ball close to goal, they are nervous.

That counter is what Barcelona did when Real Madrid first tried this tactic, it's what England didn't do when Italy used it so successfully against them at the Euros.

A view I often heard as a player (sometimes very loudly) was that the team can't perform unless it has a reliable defence behind and it's quite impossible to play well with a nervous defence behind you. In my opinion, things cannot improve until the defensive coaching becomes less rigid and the play becomes less predictable. It is far, far to easy to guess what they are going to do next on the ball, and if I can, the opposition certainly can. Over-coached.

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Nocountryforoldjack
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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RodgerTheDodger wrote:
17 Mar 2022 15:17
Speaking as an ex-CB/CM (not very good) whenever I watch the Swans now there is one thing that is glaringly obvious - the defence are over-coached. A good example of this was Naughton's 'scoring pass' against Peterborough. OK he slid, but you don't do what he was trying to do, because it's risky. No one will ever convince me that Naughton was doing the natural thing, he's very good defender who would never make that mistake left to his own devices, he was doing what has been drummed-in in training. The defence are being schooled into chess pieces that can only move in certain ways, do certain things, and it's painful to watch. The problem is not a lack of quality in the players, anyone coming in would do little better, it is the whole defensive approach.

There is a lot of 'paper, scissors, stone' about football. If a team often moves the ball slowly out of defence with short passes, the opposition can and from time to time will, form an approximate line of 4 10 metres inside the defensive half, block the channels so the back line have to move it around between themselves, and then when a player gets isolated as they always will eventually, they get a rush press and either robbed or a hurried pass goes astray. Not the defender's fault. There is a counter to that, fast one touch through the mid-field or chip into the big spaces left by the opposition players up ready for the rush press, move the ball fast towards the goal with half their team marooned up field. But the Swans don't do that, the opposition tactic is safe, the defence knows that they are always likely to lose the ball close to goal, they are nervous.

That counter is what Barcelona did when Real Madrid first tried this tactic, it's what England didn't do when Italy used it so successfully against them at the Euros.

A view I often heard as a player (sometimes very loudly) was that the team can't perform unless it has a reliable defence behind and it's quite impossible to play well with a nervous defence behind you. In my opinion, things cannot improve until the defensive coaching becomes less rigid and the play becomes less predictable. It is far, far to easy to guess what they are going to do next on the ball, and if I can, the opposition certainly can. Over-coached.
Great Post

The defence is the foundation that the rest of the team is built on, our foundation is made from egg shells.

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RodgerTheDodger
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

Unread post by RodgerTheDodger »

Nocountryforoldjack wrote:
17 Mar 2022 16:57
RodgerTheDodger wrote:
17 Mar 2022 15:17
Speaking as an ex-CB/CM (not very good) whenever I watch the Swans now there is one thing that is glaringly obvious - the defence are over-coached. A good example of this was Naughton's 'scoring pass' against Peterborough. OK he slid, but you don't do what he was trying to do, because it's risky. No one will ever convince me that Naughton was doing the natural thing, he's very good defender who would never make that mistake left to his own devices, he was doing what has been drummed-in in training. The defence are being schooled into chess pieces that can only move in certain ways, do certain things, and it's painful to watch. The problem is not a lack of quality in the players, anyone coming in would do little better, it is the whole defensive approach.

There is a lot of 'paper, scissors, stone' about football. If a team often moves the ball slowly out of defence with short passes, the opposition can and from time to time will, form an approximate line of 4 10 metres inside the defensive half, block the channels so the back line have to move it around between themselves, and then when a player gets isolated as they always will eventually, they get a rush press and either robbed or a hurried pass goes astray. Not the defender's fault. There is a counter to that, fast one touch through the mid-field or chip into the big spaces left by the opposition players up ready for the rush press, move the ball fast towards the goal with half their team marooned up field. But the Swans don't do that, the opposition tactic is safe, the defence knows that they are always likely to lose the ball close to goal, they are nervous.

That counter is what Barcelona did when Real Madrid first tried this tactic, it's what England didn't do when Italy used it so successfully against them at the Euros.

A view I often heard as a player (sometimes very loudly) was that the team can't perform unless it has a reliable defence behind and it's quite impossible to play well with a nervous defence behind you. In my opinion, things cannot improve until the defensive coaching becomes less rigid and the play becomes less predictable. It is far, far to easy to guess what they are going to do next on the ball, and if I can, the opposition certainly can. Over-coached.
Great Post

The defence is the foundation that the rest of the team is built on, our foundation is made from egg shells.
Thank you for your kind response. I have been meaning to get that off my chest for weeks.

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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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Baron Goblet
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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Do you all think we miss Marc G at the back? He started slowly then became the foundation. Naughton has similar qualities. The lynchpin in this system is hard to find consistenly. They are 10 million pound plus players. Looks like Russ is adapting the defence with four at the back but we still ship a couple of goals. I like the way Cabango is developing his style, tough as boots and developing Alan Hansen type qualiies coming foward.

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sainthelens
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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jackharris wrote:
17 Mar 2022 19:25
Bloody hell, have Birmingham sold out their allocation then ?

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airedale
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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jackharris wrote:
17 Mar 2022 19:25
So, according to that graphic, access to the NE seating area is via the South stand?

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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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airedale wrote:
18 Mar 2022 09:18
jackharris wrote:
17 Mar 2022 19:25
So, according to that graphic, access to the NE seating area is via the South stand?
No! 🙌🏼

Access to the North East corner…

1. Cross by the roundabout opposite the Coopers, walk passed the indoor training school, under the rail viaduct and walk along the eastern edge of the North Car Park.

2. Cross the pedestrian crossing by Rossi, turn left then right and walk at the side of the rail viaduct to the top end of the North Car Park and turn right and walk along the edge of the North Car Park.

3. Follow the river path from the Academy all the way to the North East corner.

4. Go round the South Stand.

5. Walk on the river path from the bridge over to the retail park.

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Swanjaxs
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

Unread post by Swanjaxs »

jackharris wrote:
18 Mar 2022 16:28
airedale wrote:
18 Mar 2022 09:18


So, according to that graphic, access to the NE seating area is via the South stand?
No! 🙌🏼

Access to the North East corner…

1. Cross by the roundabout opposite the Coopers, walk passed the indoor training school, under the rail viaduct and walk along the eastern edge of the North Car Park.

2. Cross the pedestrian crossing by Rossi, turn left then right and walk at the side of the rail viaduct to the top end of the North Car Park and turn right and walk along the edge of the North Car Park.

3. Follow the river path from the Academy all the way to the North East corner.

4. Go round the South Stand.

5. Walk on the river path from the bridge over to the retail park.
To avoid the Zulu's no doubt...
You might think I've forgotten, but one day, when you least expect it, my time will come.

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Glyn1
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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That wouldn't work, Swanjaxs, they'd head them off at the pass.


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Badlands
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

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RodgerTheDodger wrote:
17 Mar 2022 15:17
Speaking as an ex-CB/CM (not very good) whenever I watch the Swans now there is one thing that is glaringly obvious - the defence are over-coached. A good example of this was Naughton's 'scoring pass' against Peterborough. OK he slid, but you don't do what he was trying to do, because it's risky. No one will ever convince me that Naughton was doing the natural thing, he's very good defender who would never make that mistake left to his own devices, he was doing what has been drummed-in in training. The defence are being schooled into chess pieces that can only move in certain ways, do certain things, and it's painful to watch. The problem is not a lack of quality in the players, anyone coming in would do little better, it is the whole defensive approach.

There is a lot of 'paper, scissors, stone' about football. If a team often moves the ball slowly out of defence with short passes, the opposition can and from time to time will, form an approximate line of 4 10 metres inside the defensive half, block the channels so the back line have to move it around between themselves, and then when a player gets isolated as they always will eventually, they get a rush press and either robbed or a hurried pass goes astray. Not the defender's fault. There is a counter to that, fast one touch through the mid-field or chip into the big spaces left by the opposition players up ready for the rush press, move the ball fast towards the goal with half their team marooned up field. But the Swans don't do that, the opposition tactic is safe, the defence knows that they are always likely to lose the ball close to goal, they are nervous.

That counter is what Barcelona did when Real Madrid first tried this tactic, it's what England didn't do when Italy used it so successfully against them at the Euros.

A view I often heard as a player (sometimes very loudly) was that the team can't perform unless it has a reliable defence behind and it's quite impossible to play well with a nervous defence behind you. In my opinion, things cannot improve until the defensive coaching becomes less rigid and the play becomes less predictable. It is far, far to easy to guess what they are going to do next on the ball, and if I can, the opposition certainly can. Over-coached.
They have been coached to play a certain way but as someone who played left back, centre back and youth goalkeeping I knew exactly what Naughton was trying to do. Apart from give away a corner, which we are not confident defending and dribbling his way out (probably what he has recently been coached to do but suicide) his instinctive and safe option was to hoof the ball out of danger. He had a clear path to launch the ball forward, he slipped.
The goal was a direct result of that slip and a luck that the ball fell to the Peterborough player.

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RodgerTheDodger
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

Unread post by RodgerTheDodger »

Badlands wrote:
19 Mar 2022 10:40
RodgerTheDodger wrote:
17 Mar 2022 15:17
Speaking as an ex-CB/CM (not very good) whenever I watch the Swans now there is one thing that is glaringly obvious - the defence are over-coached. A good example of this was Naughton's 'scoring pass' against Peterborough. OK he slid, but you don't do what he was trying to do, because it's risky. No one will ever convince me that Naughton was doing the natural thing, he's very good defender who would never make that mistake left to his own devices, he was doing what has been drummed-in in training. The defence are being schooled into chess pieces that can only move in certain ways, do certain things, and it's painful to watch. The problem is not a lack of quality in the players, anyone coming in would do little better, it is the whole defensive approach.

There is a lot of 'paper, scissors, stone' about football. If a team often moves the ball slowly out of defence with short passes, the opposition can and from time to time will, form an approximate line of 4 10 metres inside the defensive half, block the channels so the back line have to move it around between themselves, and then when a player gets isolated as they always will eventually, they get a rush press and either robbed or a hurried pass goes astray. Not the defender's fault. There is a counter to that, fast one touch through the mid-field or chip into the big spaces left by the opposition players up ready for the rush press, move the ball fast towards the goal with half their team marooned up field. But the Swans don't do that, the opposition tactic is safe, the defence knows that they are always likely to lose the ball close to goal, they are nervous.

That counter is what Barcelona did when Real Madrid first tried this tactic, it's what England didn't do when Italy used it so successfully against them at the Euros.

A view I often heard as a player (sometimes very loudly) was that the team can't perform unless it has a reliable defence behind and it's quite impossible to play well with a nervous defence behind you. In my opinion, things cannot improve until the defensive coaching becomes less rigid and the play becomes less predictable. It is far, far to easy to guess what they are going to do next on the ball, and if I can, the opposition certainly can. Over-coached.
They have been coached to play a certain way but as someone who played left back, centre back and youth goalkeeping I knew exactly what Naughton was trying to do. Apart from give away a corner, which we are not confident defending and dribbling his way out (probably what he has recently been coached to do but suicide) his instinctive and safe option was to hoof the ball out of danger. He had a clear path to launch the ball forward, he slipped.
The goal was a direct result of that slip and a luck that the ball fell to the Peterborough player.
Look at it again, it's quite clear that there was no intended power in his pass, he was not trying to hoof it away from goal. He was trying to make short pass 135 degrees behind him to the two players there, both of whom had Wolves players close by who would have immediately pressed. So the intended pass wasn't a good idea in the first place, plus it was hard to execute and always risky. He had time for a quick touch and longer, safer pass which is what he would have done in years gone by.


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Jack2jack
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Re: Season 21/22 The Official Swansea City v Birmingham City Match Thread

Unread post by Jack2jack »

Late change Smith in Pato out🥴

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