Julian Winter update

Please only use this forum to discuss football related matters. Non football related posts will be removed to the correct forum. Please respect your fellow posters at all times and refrain as much as possible from the use of bad language.

Chief
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 165
Joined: 21 Aug 2020 19:10

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by Chief »

Longlostjack wrote:
13 Oct 2021 21:30
Marchamjack wrote:
13 Oct 2021 20:07
I see Winter confirmed at tonight’s fan forum the Silverstein loan likely to be converted to shares.
The Trust is a major shareholder. I presume they‘d have known about that. Why weren’t the members informed in a short update? A two liner would have been enough. Which reminds me - tenner in the post for a renewal. Please prove it‘s worth it. Otherwise I‘ll be joining the WI next year.
What is the update? When he loaned the club money (at 5% interest) it was stated at the time that the loan could be converted to shares in the club at s later date.

I wonder if we'd won the play off final whether it would have been converted by now!? :roll:
These users thanked the author Chief for the post:
Longlostjack



User avatar

Longlostjack
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 1147
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 21:43
Location: Bratwurst and Beer Land

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by Longlostjack »

Just think that Winter is doing a better job at communicating than the Trust at the moment.




Chief
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 165
Joined: 21 Aug 2020 19:10

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by Chief »

Longlostjack wrote:
13 Oct 2021 21:49
Just think that Winter is doing a better job at communicating than the Trust at the moment.
Hmm not sure how anyone could say that really. By Winter's own admission he hasn't really provided an update since the end of last season.

The trust tweets out updates, writes in the programme, email out monthly updates and there's new storys on their website at least weekly. So not sure realistically what more they can do? There's other stuff I've missed too.
Last edited by Chief on 13 Oct 2021 21:59, edited 1 time in total.




Chief
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 165
Joined: 21 Aug 2020 19:10

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by Chief »

eteb wrote:
12 Oct 2021 21:40
Darran wrote:
12 Oct 2021 20:08
I also believe he’s fibbing too there hasn’t been any investment from Silverstein it’s a loan.
I sit to be corrected.
the loan in which we are using the monies, surely that's an investment is it not?
An investment is where you HOPE to receive back your outlay and more.

A loan is where you are contractually GUARANTEED to receive back your outlay (plus interest).

So yes while Silverstein from his own personal viewpoint & finances could look at it as a zero risk investment earning interest in uncertain times, the club as it stands has to pay it back. Which wouldn't be the case with actual 'investment'.
Last edited by Chief on 13 Oct 2021 22:22, edited 1 time in total.




leighton
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 22
Joined: 01 Jul 2020 18:03

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by leighton »

The issue with the conversion is the price at which the loan converts to shares.

e.g. £5m loan converting at £1 per share gets 5 million shares
Same loan converting at £10 per share gets 500,000 shares

Has an impact in terms of rebalancing equity ownership - existing shareholders ‘diluted’ in the jargon.

You can (and I’m sure people have) also consider this in terms of overall value of the company (equity value - the value of all the shares in the company; not enterprise value). Say equity value is £100 million (rumoured to be the value at which the original American investment was made, IIRC) - if a £5m loan converts at that value it gets a short 5% stake. But if the conversion was at a value of £20m (recognising the deterioration in the business since relegation) that £5m gets a 20% stake (5/(5+20)).

Other shareholders are diluted - Where does the issue of new shares following the conversion leave the Trust stake?



User avatar

monmouth
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 2071
Joined: 09 Jul 2020 17:04

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by monmouth »

leighton wrote:
15 Oct 2021 16:21


Other shareholders are diluted - Where does the issue of new shares following the conversion leave the Trust stake?
in front of a bloody judge at last I would hope, 5 years later.




Chief
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 165
Joined: 21 Aug 2020 19:10

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by Chief »

leighton wrote:
15 Oct 2021 16:21
The issue with the conversion is the price at which the loan converts to shares.

e.g. £5m loan converting at £1 per share gets 5 million shares
Same loan converting at £10 per share gets 500,000 shares

Has an impact in terms of rebalancing equity ownership - existing shareholders ‘diluted’ in the jargon.

You can (and I’m sure people have) also consider this in terms of overall value of the company (equity value - the value of all the shares in the company; not enterprise value). Say equity value is £100 million (rumoured to be the value at which the original American investment was made, IIRC) - if a £5m loan converts at that value it gets a short 5% stake. But if the conversion was at a value of £20m (recognising the deterioration in the business since relegation) that £5m gets a 20% stake (5/(5+20)).

Other shareholders are diluted - Where does the issue of new shares following the conversion leave the Trust stake?


I believe it's impossible to say currently. It would depend on things whether the other sellouts like Morgan choose to weigh in or be diluted, but the trust's share percentage would reduce.

However the 'imminent' legal action could result in the trust no longer being a shareholder and there not being affected by any dilution.



User avatar

Longlostjack
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 1147
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 21:43
Location: Bratwurst and Beer Land

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by Longlostjack »

Chief wrote:
15 Oct 2021 18:39
leighton wrote:
15 Oct 2021 16:21
The issue with the conversion is the price at which the loan converts to shares.

e.g. £5m loan converting at £1 per share gets 5 million shares
Same loan converting at £10 per share gets 500,000 shares

Has an impact in terms of rebalancing equity ownership - existing shareholders ‘diluted’ in the jargon.

You can (and I’m sure people have) also consider this in terms of overall value of the company (equity value - the value of all the shares in the company; not enterprise value). Say equity value is £100 million (rumoured to be the value at which the original American investment was made, IIRC) - if a £5m loan converts at that value it gets a short 5% stake. But if the conversion was at a value of £20m (recognising the deterioration in the business since relegation) that £5m gets a 20% stake (5/(5+20)).

Other shareholders are diluted - Where does the issue of new shares following the conversion leave the Trust stake?


I believe it's impossible to say currently. It would depend on things whether the other sellouts like Morgan choose to weigh in or be diluted, but the trust's share percentage would reduce.

However the 'imminent' legal action could result in the trust no longer being a shareholder and there not being affected by any dilution.
What Shareholder Agreement are we talking about though?




leighton
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 22
Joined: 01 Jul 2020 18:03

Re: Julian Winter update

Unread post by leighton »

I’ve answered my own question … the document constituting the convertible loan is filed at Companies House. Conversion is at an equity value of £30 million.

Means the convertible would convert into 5/35 or about 14% equity stake. The Trust’s 20% would dilute to something slightly above that number.

Quite a write down for those who invested at £100 million.

Caveat: based only on a 2 minute read …



Post Reply